Hello, and welcome back to another episode of "A Done Deal" a podcast where we get unique, relatable perspectives on entrepreneurship and leadership, as seen from the eyes of seasoned entrepreneurs and investors.

It's my great pleasure to introduce my guest today Rikard Strid, who is based out of Stockholm. Rikard is an accomplished Swedish entrepreneur and is currently the chairman and chief visionary officer at KTC. Together with far-sighted Swedish property owners, he makes buildings more energy-efficient, through intelligent property automation. He's also the founder CEO of Clayster, which builds products for next-generation Internet, and helps telecom operators enter the third-dimensional business model. We'll ask a little more about it in this podcast. Rikard is also one of the top global experts on IoT or the Internet of Things and is the IoT ambassador at network society research. He's also a member of one of the working groups at IEEE setting and managing standards for methods to transport messages over a network. He's also on the committee of the Swedish Standards Institute that specifies IoT standards, amongst many other ways of working on IoT. Rikard, welcome A Done Deal.

Rikard
Thank you very much. Thank you for having me.

Keshav
What's the biggest surprise you've had in the last few months given what's going on?

Rikard
Yeah, first coming down to-- I guess like everyone is a bit surprised about what's going on and by coming down to how it affects you, I would say like my-- I was been someone where I think that I have a pretty high stress level, and very effective. And I guess I am at least, and I tried to be in the best way I can. What I realized over the last couple of months is that there is a roof that you should be very careful about not jumping against. And we're everything that is going on in the world right now and also in my own, private, and professional situation, it has affected me. So, I recently made the decision to make a change in my professional life, and come back to KTC, to step down as the CEO, and hand that over to a great guy, and then come in as the chief visionary officer, which I guess is also something that relates much better to me. So, the greatest surprise that I've seen is that we should be like, as an entrepreneur that is very driven to do things and change the world, I guess. We should also be careful about not burning ourselves out which I luckily didn't do, but that's the surprise that there is a ceiling and the roof that we should be aware of.

Keshav
Yes, Absolutely. And I love this question about the turbulent times that we are going through many of us have never experienced such type of existential crisis, where pretty much every aspect of the human psyche has been stretched, tested, stress tested. COVID, in fact has thrown a spanner in the works for people who are all set together, the wider world of entrepreneurship and that world is pretty stressful in its own way. And now COVID has made it many times harder. What is your advice to entrepreneurs and founders? In these turbulent times? What should they do?

Rikard
Yeah, but first, I think like being an entrepreneur is about to make a great impact on the world and make a change for the better for the planet so then it comes down to, as always, I would say for me, it's being intrapreneurs to be able to be an empathetic entrepreneur. Sometimes we don't know the end result of our revisions when we start doing the work. So, it's the advice that I would say is always like, be empathic, be transparent, and always work as a team with the people that you're around. That's why I'm a strong advocate for transparency, and mesh organizations where it's self-leadership and where everyone works as a team.

Still, I was the in times like this, it's more important than ever to work as a team and be transparent with your colleagues, and come up with the best empathic ways of driving the organization of the company towards division. And so, I would say its transparency, I would say is the most important thing and also gathering information from the organization and from the people that you work together with. So, everyone is part of making the decisions when it comes to situations like this and also open up the eyes, because, within a crisis like this, there is also opportunities and opportunities that we didn't see before that could leverage your business into another paradigm. And as well as looking into what is more important than ever, and also, what we are working on with KTC is to create a more sustainable organization, it's not about only about saving energy in the building. For us, it's also about having a sustainable vision, and how you work not only with the climate impact, it's like what, how can we take greater care of ourselves, our friends and our families and the planet?

Keshav
Right and I suppose... [crosstalk] Sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt.

Rikard
No, I just wanted to say that it's the most important thing is in times like this is to open up the eyes and start taking responsibilities for things, that doesn't only show on your P&L, which might show up there later on, which a lot of study says.

Keshav
Okay, so sustainability, that's the case of standing up in terms of your relationship with your employees, your founders, your....

Rikard
Yeah, your family. I think like, that the people that you work with your tribe, they are the people that you integrate with and at least what I believe in that it's a having a transparent and open relationship there. And this is the time to restructure to go away from the traditional hierarchical top-down organizations, into an organization where everyone contributes with what they are best at, and not having a transparent relationship in that and getting away from the carrot and the stick, coming back into self-leadership coming back into or in ways that were everyone will feel much better working. I will say this is for me, like how it is to what we should take with us from COVID.

Keshav
Yes, especially, I suppose with the work-life balance. Because at the end of the day, you work, to make money to eventually spend time with your loved ones, and yourself with the hobbies and interests and other things and COVID, I suppose, has also taught the importance of having that healthy work-life balance, which I suppose people were aware of where they wanted to have it, but somehow couldn't.

Rikard
And I think that that's something that I, for me being an entrepreneur, like, it's hard to divide between life and work. It's, a mess and I would say now when I do more meetings online, as I get more effective, but it's also that I have time to do other things, when it comes to spending time with family, spending time with friends, getting time to maybe read things and also I get the response, I get the opportunity to balance my life better. And I think that's something for that, which is something that I hope will come into everyone's life now. I think we will stay working like this. But instead, of course, the meeting between each other is extremely important to human meetings that I hope that we get back to sooner than ever. And but it's also I think, time, when we meet, will be more about celebration. It's about like, enjoy that time in different ways thought like when we really need when we meet, we do that to celebrate together.

Keshav
Okay. You've touched on a very interesting point about entrepreneurs and the missing work-life balances and there's a mix right. You've been an entrepreneur for a while now. Haven't you recovered and you've had your fair share?

Time [9:56 - 22:48]

Rikard
I don't think that I know much difference. Sorry for interrupting you, maybe... I grew up as an entrepreneur, I was born into an entrepreneur family, my dad is an entrepreneur...

Keshav
So, it's in your genes.

Rikard
I need to realize that there exists the university until it was too late. That was like there is something called University, which is quite funny. Now, when I look back at it, of course, extremely stressful when you are like in your like 24, 25 and realize shit, I missed that train and instead started working very early. And but it's, yeah, so I guess I've been an entrepreneur my entire life, and it's.... [crosstalk]

Keshav
But here's a hypothetical situation, if you could go back 10, 15, 20 years and do things slightly differently? What would those be? And how do you think you're still have made that difference to your life and what you're doing right now?

Rikard
If you would have asked me maybe to like, eight years ago, I'd have said that I would have done things differently. And if we take this like, a pretty big thing as like going back starting differently going to more into corporate life. I would probably have said, I would like to do that 10 years ago. And that would have probably made a huge difference. I don't know, maybe I wouldn't fit into that world. And then I would come into this direction anyway. Because sometimes we don't even know why we end up where we are and I will say what I'm right now, I wouldn't do things differently. But of course, that's because I'm not in the pain, where I were, like 12, 15 years ago of pain, what I do, like there's so many uncertainties about where my life would evolve, but now I love where I am but I will also say in that case, I always said that, like it's a matter of the perspective of when you look at where on the road where you're going, like, of course, if you look at like, if we're going to drive around the globe, it's going to be of course, on certain parts are going to be super bumpy. And it's going to be very, very difficult to go forward but when I look into the entire journey, five years later, I would probably just remember the good stuff and the things that took me there. So, I would say, I don't think, I would really change anything in that direction. Now when I'm better, maybe older, and wiser.

Keshav
That's sort of reminds me of mentors, older and wiser. Do you have any mentors growing up? You're thinking the way you know, your life shaped up?

Rikard
Yeah, we'll always enjoy it. I think having mentors is about hanging out with people that are elders in their space and have done, they have seen this as well. I'm kind of getting into that when we met doing it Panchakarma in India, the toughest detox someone can probably do. Yes. certain times when he was there. When I was there, I thought that I would die because

Keshav
I remember...[laughter]

Rikard
Maybe even you and it's so I would say like for me, it's like having someone that knows that these journeys even though it's tough right now, it's going to be easier down the road or you will not remember, it's a tough one coming back to have if I had some mentors. Yeah, of course, my parents, my mom, and my dad play a very important role in my life and I'm the only child so it's, of course, they are my siblings and my parents' kind of relationship and friends then later on in life, that's how I got into Telecom Seth Neustrom, a fantastic man who started to even working Telecom is like a guru in that space. And yeah, that was one of those like sparring partners that I had when I was like 24 and we are still like, very good friends and comms were very important and good advice and a mentor that had was thanked or killed. I have been to Auckland used to work at Microsoft also a fantastic man with the like, great insights.

I would say from the corporate world, he's been like very long time working in Seattle, for Microsoft and later in life, I have a friend, his name is Steven lives in New York, which also was also spent four years of my life. But he is an artist who comes from a different mindset, we share many ideas and philosophies about life. So, I would say it's for everyone like to find a mentor, someone that maybe you can give something back anywhere you can receive something. He has helped me a lot to keep track of where I'm going. And then I will say, of course, everyone in my life is a mentor and a guide. I really appreciate our relationship, we do come with insights and ideas, and we laugh, and it's our gets it don't get also gives back to my life. So, I would say everyone that is in the world, that your experiences your guru, kind of at least if you look at it like that, even the most difficult people that you have in your life can be great teachers.

Keshav
Exactly, that's why the words are never been said, as they say, and then, through your parents, who were your mentors in the formative years of your life. You said, you also looked at entrepreneurship like most of us have never seen him as in you're born into an entrepreneurial family. It was first nature not even second nature to you. So, could you share with us a little more about, what you're doing there with the family business with KTC. And how it's assisting in achieving the local and the global climate goals that we've set for the next 2020 odd years.

Rikard
Yes, the Short History KTC was founded by my dad, we are soon to enter 40 years of existence. And it started off 40 years ago about connecting buildings which is quite funny though like everyone's talking about the internet of things today.

Keshav
So, futurists....

Rikard
The first thing that my dad brought to the world through KTC, then was a modem to connect buildings to be able to remotely change the settings of the energy system. And since then, it has grown to today be roughly 100 people mostly doing business in the Nordic countries but also do like, I think we did one of the first like district heating substations in China in Beijing. So, we've been around for 40 years, we've been doing mostly until lately, it's been about automation, how to optimize the indoor climate but five years ago, when it's not been so much about the energy in itself, even though we've been working with all the Atrex system, the DC heating system, all the stuff that is about making the energy cost less but especially focusing on bringing good indoor climate for the people staying being aside. And but I would say between ten and five years ago, they started to change, when we started to go more towards working with energy optimization, renewable energies came into our world, solar panel, thermal heating, heat pumps, and all these kinds of things. We also started to see this shift in the world where like you started to be able to get all these governmental....

Keshav
Subsidies and grants...

Rikard
Yeah, subsidies started coming into our customer's world. And so that's when we five years ago, we changed we put up a vision that says that we believe in a world where energy is free, with zero environmental impact, and still offering the best living experience and working experience for people being indoor in house. So, what we do is that we have in our tribe, we live with 100 people like spread out all over the Swedish country. We run projects, we work with energy optimizations are like brilliant technicians or impact warriors or out in the field like doing the best we can to bring down the energy consumption but we are also like the last couple of years, it's also been about bringing, how much renewable energies can we bring in with the best ROI? How can we bring in like a really what is the-- so the customers like get really good payoff time of their investment and still going renewables? And where we are right now. we are in a situation where renewables are getting better and cheaper.

So, I would say 65, like customers that we have today, they have decreased the energy that they buy from the utility company between 60 and 70% which is quite a lot, I guess we're going to be like a 120%, within 10 years, which means like, they're going to produce more and more then they consume and especially also now with, I didn't know, I didn't interrupt entrepreneurship when I was 24, with a company called Monodo. That was 14 years ago, we developed indoor Smart Home displays and IPTV services to have applications for tenants to see their energy consumption in real-time. So, you can press about them when someone took a shower. And then you can compare that the cost and the consumption and the climate impact with your neighbors, your siblings, your family, other family members.

And so, we see now like an awareness that is coming and people start to care, like 14 years ago, nobody really cared because a shower is like a 10-cent euro or something, I don't know. I might be wrong there. But so, it's, I would say it's that there is a lot of things going on right now. And with a chief, I think New York City says that by 2030, they're going to decrease by 50% is like they going to have zero carbon footprint. And so, but it's also quite interesting, because when we looking at the other world in Telecom, that I which I'm also involved with what when I speak to you till the like, I spoke to CEO at the utility company, and what he told me is like, if he doesn't achieve to put the buildings off, if we do not achieve to put the buildings off the grid, we will not have enough energy for 5G.

Time [22:48 - 29:23]

Keshav
Really, Wow, that is such a powerful statement, especially on the advancements that...[crosstalk]

Rikard
Electric cars, they will be moving batteries with for like peak loading but 5G with these like when we're going to go up to like one millisecond or below like 60, it's going to be so much energy in these beams that we're going to need for our future digital society or how we're going to evolve. So, it's not only about a lot of people who thought that electric cars will be the issue. It might be 5G that's going to be an issue for us not having blackouts in all over the world. And of course, like the....

Keshav
People are coming up with innovative technologies, trying to Levelized cost of energy is going down the NCOE. But yes, what the growing population means, it's only going to get worse from here. So...

Rikard
Yeah, one last thing about it, I think it still comes back to what we say about COVID is it's not only about decreasing your carbon footprint or lowering your general consumption. It's like the entire ecosystem that you need to tie into and take responsibility on a fully sustainable perspective. It's like a 360 issue that we're going to be put forward to if we do not take these responsibilities.

Keshav
Correct. So, how do you look at climate change as Rikard? As yourself? How do you visualize it? And you mentioned the word ecosystem, as in it's not limited to just one or two players, but it's essentially about how everyone looks at climate change. And of course, energy and 20 other things that relate to it. Should everyone in the ecosystem worry about it in the same fashion or are there some other some key players who should take more action by taking a little more accountability for their actions?

Rikard
I think it's a matter of like, how fortunate you are to be like, if your fortune to live in a place where you have time, like first everyone should care like it's a matter of responsibility. And it's not only about climate change, it's about all the sustainability goals that comes out by the UN, is something that people should take responsibility for but the impact if climate change goes as it seems, as it well, if we do not take these responsibilities, we will end up in a world that will be much more complicated than COVID is. We will have climate refugees in a way that we could never ever imagine there are so many places in the world that we will not be able to live in, what people don't understand is like there are so many tiny chips that will change so much over our entire global ecosystem because the planet acts as a global ecosystem, and it doesn't really care where people live and so I think it's everyone should take the responsibility and care about climate change in whatever way they can.

And one way could just be to have more of an even though you do not buy like solar panels, so you use less energy or whatever, there are other ways to take the responsibility because the way of how climate influences are influenced by so many factors, like just doing things like taking a meeting from home, not buying a plastic bottle, eating more green food, and getting like everything that there are so many things where you can contribute, or even just putting a smile on your face. And when you meet people because that could influence them to give them energy that gives them space to do something good. So, I think all these things that we see coming into our world these days, we should get or it's not only about the climate, but also about all these other factors. And coming back to that we are a tribe with 9 billion people, the tribe needs to come together. And I hope all of these threats or these kinds of bad things that can happen is it's going to bring us closer together. And we need to do that otherwise we'll end up in a world where... [crosstalk]

Keshav
So, if you think you think choice plays a big role in whatever, actions occur in our lives. And I suppose we've all been through pivotal points in our lives, even on a daily basis, do I do this? Or do I do that? Should I take the left turn into going right? And again, we've been in thought about doing right things all the time. But I suppose the combination or the cumulative effect, obviously has that role to play. So, Rikard, I'm just curious to understand a little more about these pivotal moments in your life, as they call the fork in the road. Being an entrepreneur, sorry, you're born in an entrepreneurial family, and yet, you've decided to carve out your own entrepreneurial journey as a founder CEO with Clayster. How did that happen?

Time [29:23 - 40:45]

Rikard
Yeah, it's more like do we make these choices or how do we end up in places where we are? So, it's how did that how I ended up in place or I guess this was like it. I had my initiation when I was 24. I tried to, I didn't go for entrepreneurship in a number of the family business, going into smart home and Telecom and I will say like that was probably to initiate myself into adulthood, how to start doing my own stuff. Because I didn't have a university degree, I had the toolbox that I had was being in this family and try to find a way to maybe become an adult. And so, I did that and then that didn't fly. So, then I moved to New York, that was a decision that I made like I moved there to say, Okay, I was like in my 29, and said, okay, maybe I should not be an entrepreneur, I didn't know that being an entrepreneur is not a free choice that something comes deeper within yourself so I took that as I was going to shift that I started to study but how I got in, and what then happened was that I was asked by the Swedish government, to help them define a, what the transition will be from machine to machine to the Internet of Things, but I said, I'm not going to interrupt nurse, I will not be involved in this.

And one critical factor will be that the Telecom operators or the operators will be involved in this and I spent too much time working with them almost killing myself, but I helped them to design this. And that may become individualized, what case is about as well, but it's for me, I took the decision to go back and work as an entrepreneur, and I think was more of a calling because Clayster is so much about integrity and privacy. And I deeply care about integrity and privacy from the perspective of free will. As I care about identity and digital identity, that's a huge topic. Now I'm going to be even a bigger topic for us in the future. That's why I like all this possible blockchain stuff, even though we don't even know what they're going to fit in but it's.... I make my decisions on a gut feeling, I guess, and then that gets more fluid into where I end up. I want to live in a flow, and I want to be able, that's why I really care about biohacking and brain hacking and mind hacking because I try to stay as clean as I can. To be as sensitive as I can to the guidance that something within myself is trying to tell me. And so, I don't really make like left, right turns like in that way in that fashion. I think maybe the one, maybe it was a big thing for me to say okay, you should go back and be an interpreter, I guess.

Keshav
And the rest is history. So, you mentioned biohacking. What's that all about?

Rikard
I guess it's about like, how do you optimize the time that you are allowed to spend here on planet Earth and how can you quantify yourself in a physical and mental-emotional and some people even want to go into like the spiritual realm. And for me, the spiritual space is just a way to burn up your mind into something that you do not fully understand yet and that is not empirically tested yet or accepted. So, biohacking is like as I showed you before I guy, right now I wear like a sensor that measures your blood sugar levels. And it's quite interesting. I use a smartphone to get all the information and it tells you like it's for me, it's interesting. It's not about to-- I'm not a diabetic, but I want to know, like the food that I eat, how does it affect my glucose? And how does it affect my insulin levels? So, it's okay so for me it's about like to know yourself better on a deeper level. As I would love to get information from Facebook and Google where they have like, how much of a brain map, my brain so I can know more about my fears. I recently learned about like, they say you can be as evolved as you think that you are but go back to spend Christmas with your family and you realize that there is stuff inside yourself that you need to work on. So, I guess biohacking is a way to put you're in like to do your work on all these like different dimensions, diets, whatever happened. Look at your body as like its chemistry lab. We just make that pretty much....

Keshav
So, biohacking is all about the hardware, then right? stuff that makes your body the body that is what you eat because that's essentially what your body is right? You are what you eat. What about the mind then, Rikard? Because the mind is one uncontrollable beast? A lot of us have tried and are still trying to understand how it operates but I suppose to understand the mind, you need to delve into the spiritual side of things, something that you said is maybe not accepted and mainstream ways of looking at things but have you explored the spiritual side of things as well Rikard activating Chakras, for example?

Rikard
Yeah, I guess like I'm very curious soul and I think, if you do not open up the hardware, so as to say, your brain, and because one of the strongest fears that we have the inside overhead that is in the unconscious brain is that we are, it's neuroplasticity, to change the patterns of your brain. That's why it's so hard to change patterns like to change diets, to change way of working, to change through whatever it is, that's like, what that is what it's working against ourselves, almost all the time is change. And so, I think for me, it's been about like, opened up the brain to alternative insights, or alternative information knowledge. So, of course, I've been exploring everything that a lot of things that I think like is there is like, not normal in everyone's life.

And I think it's, even though when we met in when I was doing the Panchakarma, there were times there that was, out of this world experiences, because since they work, like we do 30 days heavy detox, to clean out all our senses, when the senses are like when you take the fog of the lens, you start to see things differently. And I think that could be kind of a spiritual moment, I had spiritual moments, there was like, very, very interesting spiritual moments than could be described as something that we cannot understand. But there are other things which I think like the gap between science and spirituality, which is kind of the two opposites to each other back in a day, so I'm now starting to get closer together, like friends that I had this, like the top people in astrophysics, even though live in the like idea of like the universe is in the simulation. And I think even though if we go into deep quantum physics, we don't know like how do this material world that we experienced come together? And how do we experience, and I will guess, in the Hindu in the VEDA books, we are also a lot of things that says there is more and more and more coming back into science as well.

I would say like in 20 years, we've probably gone to see a lot of the things that was like more like, I don't know, skeptical things like my 5, 10 even today would be more accepted. I think that is also something important as an entrepreneur at least for me, is to always look within that the tool for what you want to see it's not always outside of yourself. I have a lot of in it, like, I guess we can, I can go a bit into it but like when I started, I have a lot of experiences like where like things like how the world comes together like serendipitous, and serendipity is a very, very interesting concept if you want to dig into it from a scientifical perspective because like in the material world, it's like there is no matter. Everything is just energy and energy that is then generated and comes together because of some principles in our existence or Universal. And I think that's where my journey began, like 15 years ago when I started to like, Okay, what is it actually that is creating the reality within that I'm running around within and that might make you spiritual, but it also makes it like scientific or it makes you questioning when I think questioning is like we are having radical mind to dare to question the things that you do not understand that people tell you is wrong. I think that gives you the freedom of living a life that you are fully conscious of, especially you can't fully control of yourself.

Time [40:45 - 52:48]

Keshav
Well, I suppose you're absolutely right. So, things that we do not understand are often labeled as unpredictable and chaotic or the unknown, just because you've not managed to put some sort of a mathematical equation to explain the repeatability or the correlation between causation and effect. So, yes, till such point we understand or should continue to understand the unknown. As an entrepreneur, yes, you have to go through a journey of self-discovery. To find yourself at peace with articulating, should I say what that gut feeling is about because you've had several instances in your life where you went with your gut feel and managed to find what you're after. So, I'm sure there is some sort of relationship there. And yes, and there's another thing which you're experimenting with these days, psyche synthesis, if I'm not mistaken, what was that?

Rikard
Synthesis that now I don't even know the synthesis phase but it's another hadn't even noticed it in English. It's funny. So, it is one branch that goes out of Sigmund Freud. So, there are two branches that goes from Sigmund Freud. One is called Yun, which is the more famous guy. And then we have Roberto Assad Jolie, which is another guy that came out of Sigmund Freud. And I have a great interest in both of them because it's about realizing the self like Freud gave us was like him a lot about how to suppress, understand that suppress these, like, this other side of ourselves how to keep that away. And I don't believe so much about because what happens when we push things away is that it builds upon another side, and then it comes out. And instead, it's more about how can realize the self? Like, how can you bring the self into the world, but under controlled forms, and learn from it? Like how can you learn physically? Okay, I think, understand, like, what are the physical level makes me do what I do? What do I want to manifest? Because I think everyone has something that they want to bring into the world to have some will, at least what I learned as an entrepreneur.

And never trust that someone wants to do something because they can. Everyone wants to do something because they will. The will is the number one thing and that's what you need to debunk on a job interview that people will say yes, yes, yes, I can do this. And they might be able to do it. But some people are naiver and they're more like once they want to do the work. So, they want to get the job so they say they can and then they do fake it till I make it hopefully. So, coming back to then realize itself and I think that's what I truly believe in. It's like, yeah, on a physical level, what is going on in my body? Why do I do, what I do? On a mental level, why do I do, what I do? On an emotional level, what fears is holding me back from not doing what I'm supposed to do? What fears are? What it is pushing me in the direction that is maybe even destroying your life. I have experiences like in with fears that I never thought that I had.

But then you come into situations that triggers things within your body. And the only way to get that out of your body is to also realize it, bring it up then have an open mind and allow yourself to heal those things and then go forward. So, in psychology and all like I would say that the science or the understandings in some of those theories or theories that comes up called Jung theory that comes up Roberto's. Joe Lewis goes back to the beta and it goes back to Buddhism, it goes back to like deeper, deeper knowledge. And that is not fully understood. today.

Keshav
Yes, you're absolutely right. Till such point good able to measure what goes on in the mind and Elon Musk's neural link is doing something similar, It sort of touches both areas, which are close to you, IoT and the human brain, What are your thoughts about that?

Rikard
I think it's because that's biohacking. I was a, it is in the challenge with these things is that might be something within 100 years. But right now, it's replicates something that lives in the past, within your brain, it measures you, like I don't know, certain synapses that is communicating or whatever, and impulses within your brain and is already in the past. And since we already live in the past, the average human being lives between 406 100 milliseconds in the past, that's how long it takes for our nervous system to transport the information into the machine that we are going to translate into a picture that you're going to see in your head to experience the outside world. So, I don't know it might be good in like, you will not come back like we telepath it or something with that with his product, it might be good as it as they say it is a way for people that have broken physical body, and they want the body to operate and work better. It's like a pacemaker, but not for your heart is a pacemaker for your brain and your spine and to couldn't reconnect the broken missing links?

Rikard
Yeah, missing links. I think that but it's not something that will like do things that it's like [crosstalk] we do these kinds of things. I don't think I would put one. I have this one today, and maybe I will get...

Keshav
Maybe you already have one. For all, you know...

Rikard
I don't know. Maybe I do. I live in a simulation, who really does. And because I think it's an interesting topic that we as humans should be very cautious about is that we are also part of the planetary kingdom, we are an animal as everyone else, even though we have invented clothes. And we have invented a lot of very weird stuff that we think that we need to be able to live on the planet and be happy but what I mean, when we look at the rest of the planet, there is an evolutionary pattern, things happen because of evolution and will that drive things towards like, we don't have to do anything with the tree, it just grows. We don't have to do anything with the animal as soon as we create reproductional organs or whatever to bring the species forward. So, I think on it, I think us as humans, we should also consider how are we can be sure that everything that we do is already is part of the evolution. And because there are tons of theories that says that there is no clue how we humans cannot break because we are living in a-- it's just chaos. And we think that we make our own decisions to do whatever we do, but if we are operating within the chaos, and this chaos is then brought forward based on because of something and we think that we achieve things but we do not really achieve anything we just talk and do...

Keshav
There are umpteen stories in various books, by the way, which talk about time dilation and the fact that the same instances have occurred hundreds of times in the past and people are essentially reliving the same thing over and over again. And yeah, it's an interesting topic, I suppose, which warrants another podcast and I think we'll have you back on record. I think that this has been a great conversation. And this concept of time as well. So, we come to that part of the podcast, which is called the rapid-fire round where I present two options. So, you are given two options where you actually can make a choice. So, you just let that brain decide very quickly in an instant. What it wants, the first thing that comes to your mind, yeah.

Keshav
All right, IoT or blockchain.
Rikard
IoT.

Keshav
Khichdi or Swedish meatballs.
Rikard
I would say from a bigger tear, like a vegetarian perspective, I will say Khichdi, but I need to say of course, we just meatballs and have been doing the Panchakarma... Sorry.

Keshav
Heavy metal or Metallica?
Rikard
Tough one. Maybe today Metallica.

Keshav
Swim or run?
Rikard
Swim.

Keshav
Meditation, or sleep?
Rikard
Meditation.

Keshav
Book or podcast?
Rikard
Book.... Sorry.

Keshav
Oh. That's fine. And one final question. How important is sleep for entrepreneurs?
Rikard
Yeah, I think sleep there is nothing more important asleep. And I would say like even because I said meditation because I am fortunate to have to be able to sleep, wake up hopefully refreshed. But I also realized like sleep is important for entrepreneurs as like the most important thing for everyone. Because that's when our brain fully recovers. And especially being an entrepreneur thinking about 100,000 things during the days. Yeah, it's there is not that you cannot emphasize enough about how important it is.

Keshav
Okay. Wonderful, wonderful Rikard. Thank you ever so much. For setting aside time for this podcast. I really enjoyed this conversation. And I hope our audience did too. And I hope we have another one. We will discuss, the other aspects of entrepreneurship, focusing on mental health. Okay, all right. Well, folks, that's all for today, then, in another episode of "A Done Deal". Thank you for listening in. And please do subscribe to the podcast on iTunes and Spotify. Signing off, then. Have a great day.

Keshav
Take care. Bye.

Rikard
Thank you. Bye.